In this episode, CEO of Practice Freedom U, Jamey Schrier, talks about pricing your services appropriately.

Today, Jamey talks about the guilt surrounding pricing, accessibility and luxury, and the 3X model. How should we express the outcomes of our services?

Hear about job security, pricing according to the market, and get Jamey’s advice to his younger self, all on today’s episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.


Key Takeaways

  • “You don’t strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.”
  • “We need to charge appropriately for not what we do but benefits that we provide.”
  • “Always get paid for R&D.”
  • “People will pay for your results.”
  • “I would’ve gotten help from an outside source sooner.”


More about Jamey Schrier

headshot of Jamey Schrier Jamey Schrier, P.T., is a best-selling author, business coach, speaker, and CEO of Practice Freedom U, a business training and coaching company. Jamey has helped hundreds of private practice owners Treat Less, Earn More, and live a life of prosperity and fun.



Suggested Keywords

Healthy, Wealthy, Smart, Pricing, Money, Quality, Experience, Value, Business,



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To learn more, follow Jamey at:


LinkedIn:         Jamey Schrier.

Instagram:       @jameyschrierpfu.

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Read the Full Transcript Here:

Unknown Speaker 0:02
Hey, Jamie, welcome back to the podcast, one of my most frequent guests, and I love you for coming on. It’s so great. I love seeing you. If only your wife would were here, that would make it so much better.

Unknown Speaker 0:14
Well, thank you so much, Karen. And she couldn’t be here. But I think she’s having fun with her friends, because it’s around the holidays. And that’s what she does.

Unknown Speaker 0:23
Oh, wow. Next time she’s coming on. So let’s see, last time we saw each other was that PPS in Colorado? And you had you did a pre con there, right? What was that pre con about just kind of tell the audience in case you do it again, we can get some you know,

Unknown Speaker 0:44
it’s it’s one of my it’s one of my best pre cons. It’s one of my best workshops, it’s five steps to additional five figures. And what I do is just grab, like, a few key areas in every business needs these. So for this one, we did a lot of foundational stuff around vision and values. We then went into messaging like, actually, how do you communicate what you do we always complain, no one understands what we do. Chad went into a whole thing on you know, how to develop your message and how to put this message everywhere. So people actually understand what you do. And let’s see, we did delegation. Who not you. So to get that stuff off your plate that we all hate doing. You and I are talking about behind the scenes, video editing, it’s, we all have things that we hate doing, you hire someone else. And we did some other things around development of systems. So it was four hours, and it was awesome. And it went like just like that.

Unknown Speaker 1:52
I’m sure it did. Well, it sounds great. And if you do it again, hopefully at PPS people you’ll get I know you had like a sellout crowd, right?

Unknown Speaker 2:02
Well, yeah, I mean, we had it sold out in like a few days. And I thought that we’re going to expand it, because we had plenty of room but there was some mix up or whatever. So I’m hoping I can get back there next year and literally do the same talk. I think we could probably get 150 people in there without without a problem. Because it was it was great. I got people still reaching out to me saying, oh my god, I did what you said I, I tweaked my my ad and all of a sudden people reached out to me, they want to work for me. Amazing. There’s no secrets, but there’s definitely some certain principles that can can always help us. Right, right.

Unknown Speaker 2:38
Absolutely. And so today we’re gonna talk about pricing our services. So this is a question I get a lot, I’m sure it’s something you get a lot. And I have a feeling it’s what a lot of people struggle with is how do I price my services appropriately? So what is your best advice? Let’s just start with that. So how do we how do we properly price our services? And before we even start, I’ll also say, I think a lot of physical therapists, maybe you may disagree, are uncomfortable around this conversation of pricing. Because

Unknown Speaker 3:19
therapists are uncomfortable around the conversation of money. Right?

Unknown Speaker 3:23
Right. So let’s start. Let’s start. Let’s start with that. So what do you say to those people who are like, Oh, I don’t know, I feel bad. I feel bad charging people for what I do. How many times have you heard that?

Unknown Speaker 3:37
A lot. I heard today, I had three conversations. One too, with clients, current clients and one with someone that was interested in our program. And they all brought up the same word guilt. Guilt is a word I hear so often. And it’s the guilt of whatever making money, the guilt of what I should be charging the guilt of, you know, I feel like it should be in with my team and working all the time with them. Or, you know, it’s just this idea of this guilt is a motion that isn’t a rational emotion. Right. It’s an irrational emotion. And that kind of leads us to making some decisions that aren’t beneficial for anyone. So, you know, when people say, you know, I, I feel bad about charging and, you know, my, my response back is, you know, what, specifically do you feel bad about? And that’s when they kind of stop and it’s more of, well, why don’t really know, like, they don’t know why they feel bad. It’s almost like a default mechanism. Right? It’s just, it’s if you say you feel bad, it’s, I kind of refer to it almost like I feel bad. So I’m a good person. Like if I feel bad about charging people, I’m a good person. Now you and I would do a reframe on that. If I don’t to charge you, then you don’t get to experience my services in a way that you get to pay and feel the value of what I deliver, like that reframe all of a sudden changes the whole relationship. But we don’t look at it from that way, a lot of times, I mean, obviously, if we really wanted to become multimillionaires, we probably wouldn’t have gone into physical therapy. So we would be, you know, right down the street from in Wall Street. So, you know, many of us do have this idea that helping people and doing good in the world somehow means we shouldn’t make money or can’t make money. I mean, there’s some deep money blocks that that are going on there. And I think that’s what interferes, when we try to determine how much do we charge for our services?

Unknown Speaker 5:50
Mm hmm. Yeah. 100%. And, you know, I think early on in my career, I had those feelings of like, wow, I don’t know, I don’t feel right about this. And then, and then you realize you have that mind shift of like, well, wait a second. If I am not charging appropriately, to keep my doors open, then I’m doing a disservice to my community, because I can’t reach the people I need to reach.

Unknown Speaker 6:20
Yeah, I mean, I say this all the time. It’s, you don’t, you don’t strengthen the weak by weakening the strong, we are the strong, the business owner is the strong, we’re the one that’s taking this risk. We’re the ones that is, you know, trying to create this vision is something that we want to do and help other people. And yet, we’re the ones that work more hours than anybody in our business. Typically, if you add up the hours, you work by what you pay yourself, you’re making less than your therapists that you’re that you’re paying. And you’re stressed out, it affects your relationships at home, it’s like you give your best to the people that you work with. And you give whatever energy is leftover to the people that you love and that are at home. Right, the whole model screwed up. And it has a lot to do with kind of kind of going back to either our childhoods or what schools kind of teaching us or whatever our influences are, that is screwing us up when we go into this business of physical therapy.

Unknown Speaker 7:24
Right, right. Because, for me, what was the biggest aha moment or a change in mindset, if you will, is going from being a physical therapist who happens to own a business, to being a business owner, who happens to be a physical therapist. So once you’re in that business owner mindset, you need to keep your doors open, you need to know what you need to make to turn a profit to gosh, I mean, at least pay your bills, right. But you should want to pay your bills and turn a profit. So you know, when it so let’s talk about when it comes to pricing. Is there a formula? Is there something that people can look at or can plug and play? That gives them a better idea on what they can charge?

Unknown Speaker 8:18
Yes. So I like to share a little story with you. Um, New York has some beautiful hotels, right? What’s What’s the nicest hotel you know, of in New York? What’s the peninsula?

Unknown Speaker 8:33
Peninsula, you’re like, I don’t know. flippin insula.

Unknown Speaker 8:36
I don’t know. Okay, the peninsula. Pretty

Unknown Speaker 8:38
nice place, right? Right charges. Who knows how much per night but it’s not. It’s not like 150 bucks. And then there’s the opposite end of the peninsula, there’s probably, you know, maybe a red roof or something floating around there, maybe a small little Fairfield inn or whatever the case is. Right now, the peninsula probably does pretty well. And I know the Red Roof Inn, they do pretty well as it also. So these are two hotels. These hotels have to make a decision about what is your avatar? What are you about? What do you stand for? And if the peninsula thinks that they’re trying to be a red roof in and do some of the things that the Red Roof Inn does, then you as someone that loves peninsula will be turned off. And of course, if the Red Roof Inn starts charging $20 for water in the room, which I imagined the peninsula will do minimum, then you’re going to turn off that ideal client. So it is not about what you charge, you first have to answer the question, Who is the audience you’re trying to track? And even before you answer that, you have to go in too, what are you about? Where do you put yourself from the peninsula, the high end, Four Seasons Hotel even higher, and the Red Roof Inn, because it isn’t bad and isn’t good. They’re just very different in how they identify their avatar, and how they deliver deliver services and how they market and how they deliver the experience of the Avatar, they both have an avatar, and they both do financially very well. That’s where we have to begin, we have to begin with identifying well are we going to be more of a place that might be, hey, we’re a little bit more of a volume business, we accept insurance, we’re only getting paid 50 bucks a pop, we got to see three people an hour, we do pretty good service, the beds are clean, the pillows work, you know, we keep the place clean, we keep the lights nice, but it is it’s like you’re going to stay the night and it does the job. Versus Are you going to be a high end boutique, high touch kind of place, you’re going to do things that most places don’t, you’re gonna get that call, the person is going to have your cell number they’re going to reach out to it’s just a different experience. Each of those places has to charge a different amount they have to write this is really an exercise on clarity. This is an exercise on you looking in the mirror and saying what is this place about? And you have to be honest, because if you’re like, well, we deliver the greatest care in New York and where the best work, okay, then that means you have to align your business to demonstrate that don’t say you’re the greatest, and you got a leak in the ceiling. Your carpet hasn’t been changed in 20 years. Right? You know, you got some water fountains sitting outside. One of my one of my clients, he’s in Brooklyn, he, you know, we did this exercise years ago, and I said, Lou, what are you about, and he goes on Equinox, I go, um, hi. And he does PT he does ot he does, you know, a little bit of rehab stuff. And by golly, you walk into his place, it is high. And that is his whole way of doing things from the towels he gives in the bottle of water in the art, everything is for that person that appreciates that. And yes, many of his non insurance prices reflect that. So that’s, that’s where you have to start, you have to determine where you are on that spectrum, let’s say make it easy. Let’s just say it’s one to five. All right, the wine is solid, nice. Probably a little more volume ish, lower price, the high end Peninsula, that’s where you have to start.

Unknown Speaker 13:06
Yeah. And that’s when I sort of started my business, I sort of coined the phrase like a concierge practice, because I patterned my business after a high end concierge is like at the peninsula, or at the Four Seasons, or at the, I don’t know, the Andaz or something like that, right, these very high end, hotel chains that go above and beyond, you know, they go the extra mile. And so that’s how I created my practice and what my practice is, you know, we’re all about excellence in every sense of the word.

Unknown Speaker 13:47
And if you said that to me, and I’m like, Oh, my God, that’s great. I love that because I’m status, right? Yeah. When someone tells me the peninsula, it’s not because the beds are really that much better. They probably are. But it’s not because of that. Let’s face it, Seth Godin talks about this all the time, it’s connecting with status on a certain status. Now, if you said, I’m the greatest, and you told me you charge $75 a visit, I wouldn’t go to you, right? Because that’s not enough. I need to be connected with the best, right? Let’s face it, the best usually has the biggest price tag. That’s why Mercedes, that’s why BMW are a different level than some of the other car companies, right. That’s what people expect, even if they pay a lower amount, because they started bringing their prices down to fit a different type of it still has that element of oh, I drive a Mercedes.

Unknown Speaker 14:43
Right. And I think it also comes down to you know, you’re looking at that word luxury. Right. So I and I often wonder, I do I think physical therapy is a luxury item. I don’t I mean it Well, it could be, but I do think physical therapy should be accessible to everyone. But why can’t you be accessible and be luxury at the same time?

Unknown Speaker 15:11
Well, that’s interesting. So you’re going to start now moving towards a little bit of the heartstrings that you and I have talked about many, many times. This is where people get into trouble, right? I’m working with a client right now. And he’s coming out of a really bad situation for the last couple of years, because he made a decision and impulsive financial decision to accept Medicaid, his businesses, typical outpatient, ortho, you know, one of those types of places, whenever be a half hour type of thing. And he did this because he said, Oh, my God, there’s nobody doing Medicaid. The money’s not too bad. And we don’t even have to mark it, we can get a million people. Well, what he failed to really go through is realize that this population didn’t align with everything else that he’s doing. It was a completely separate population. It doesn’t mean he couldn’t have them in, but it was just mixing everything up. almost cost him his business. So he realized, oh, yeah, it was it was seven figures, it was costing him. So he realized, Oh, my God, this is a disaster. Now, he said, like you said, I wanted to try to help and serve more people. So I can help them serve more people. It was easy to generate a referrals. And we can see the population. But the population that came in the type of services that were delivered, the type of culture, not bad or good, it was just very different. What they had, so it caused a lot of internal strife. And of course, the amount of work it took to actually get paid from the government.

Unknown Speaker 16:56
Right, right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 16:59
So when you start doing things out of alignment, just like our spine, when your spine is out of alignment, it starts to create a problem, it starts to break down. So this this a question about what should I charge? The question is, what are you about? What do you believe in? And then you start to do research, not comparing yourself what someone else is charging. You do research around? I’m similar to Karen. I feel like I’m that place. What is Karen charge? She charges 250 a visit? What is someone else? HR 300. This purchase this person charges? Two. So now, you know, anywhere from two to 300 is in that world?

Unknown Speaker 17:42
Yeah, you’re in the right ballpark,

Unknown Speaker 17:44
you’re in the right ballpark. Now that number can be I don’t know, I mean, people that say, Well, I charge 125 of this, like, Okay, the first question is, is that number going to get you what you want? And that’s a hard question to ask, right? Why would you want to make? Well, I want to make 200,000 I go, Well, 125 an hour is not gonna get you there. I don’t care where you live. Right. Right, right. These are really difficult questions that we have to answer. But the idea is, value is not about. It’s not about the techniques. It’s not about all that stuff. You’re learning all that stuff that our profession sells us, you got to learn more about this stuff, you got to have the fancy technique. It’s not about that values, really about the big result. You help people plus the benefits that you add the result or the outcome, and the ancillary benefits. That’s ultimately what we’re selling, all of us are selling. And if you do this exercise, right, you really start looking at Karen, well, what is the big result that we’re giving people? Yes, we’re getting them out of pain. But what are they getting back to? They’re getting back to running, they’re getting back to work. They’re getting back to living their life in full. You tell me what that’s worth. Because if you dig down deep enough, guess what it’s worth? It’s priceless. Right? If you truly think about what we do, it’s priceless. Because of our health because we only have one body. And you know, if you don’t feel good, it’s just a miserable, miserable way. So if the value that we provide is really priceless. Then we’re just using the the hotel model to figure out where we want to be. And then we align our business and we align everything else we’re doing in that way. Right the alignment that’s the biggest issue. Because we all say we want to be the boutique, especially the cash base programs, we want to be boutique but our heartstrings, in the way we run our business is the red roof in one’s not bad ones not good. It just doesn’t aligned. And that creates stress.

Unknown Speaker 20:10
Right, right. Yeah. So I think if, as when you’re thinking about pricing, and correct me if I’m wrong here, but I think you want to look at quality, like, what is the quality of the product you’re delivering? What kind of experience and reward are you creating for your patients? Is it through like a controlled sort of channel? Or is it chaos? That makes a big difference? Nobody wants chaos. And then finally, is it a personalized service? Or is it cookie cutter? And I think you have to think about all of those things before, as you’re thinking about your pricing. Don’t you think?

Unknown Speaker 20:56
I’ll push back a little bit on that? Yeah. I’ve never met anyone that told me they had a cookie cutter practice, ever. We everyone knows people. But when you look at yourself, right, says they have a cookie cutter practice. Right. Right. So you know, you said you said something about experience. I’ll push back on that. I don’t really care how much you know, I know. I

Unknown Speaker 21:22
don’t I don’t mean, my experience. I mean, greens for the patient. Oh, their experience? Yeah. Have creating a good experience for your customer? I’ve heard that before. Yeah, that’s my experience. No, no, no,

Unknown Speaker 21:36
I got 10 years and 20 years. I’m like, No, it’s the value you provide?

Unknown Speaker 21:41
Yeah, no, I mean, the, like the patient experience, I should have been more specific the experience that you provide for for them?

Unknown Speaker 21:50
Exactly. I mean, you know, look, if you’re providing if you feel you’re providing a higher service, and part of that higher service is creating an experience that really meets people where they are and meets their physical needs, their emotional needs, and all these other needs that they have, then you need to price it appropriately. So you need to look at other places that do something similar, and get an idea of where you should be. Right. I can tell you right now, nobody does that. What they do is they just pick a number out of the hat based on their internal guilt system. Am I feel okay with this number, or if I feel too guilty with it, it’s a completely irrational system. And that’s how they do because I’ve seen people people come in our program, and I go, how much you charge? And I like 121 30. I’m like, is that what you’re worth? They’re like, No, I’m worth 180. I go in charge 180. They’re like, really? I can do that. I’m like, Sure can. And then you start getting into, well, what if they say no, what? Every single time very few people ever lead, they just gave himself a massive raise. And now they feel better about the services are providing, right? Let’s face it, I guarantee when you were a little younger, as a therapist, you charge less, there’s a slight little resentment, I care and just a slight, just a little resentment, like, I’m so freaking good at what I’m doing. And I’m only charging this amount. I know with me there was because I spent a fortune on my education, continuing it hours upon hours learning to get paid the worst paying insurance that I accept it. Right. I mean, it’s it’s a tough thing. But you need to really look at, you know, a great exercise I like to do is what are the benefits your service or program provides? Like, if you’re trying to figure out what are the benefits? What is what is the model? Like, what is the treatment model? We refer to it as the business model. You know, this is the revenue you make for the program or for the service. And then what does the market charge for a similar thing? Now I know people listening will be like, well, no one does it quite like me. No one will ever do it quite like you. But let’s face it, there’s other people that do something similar to the outside public. It may not be similar to you, but if you’re looking outside, it’s similar. That will give you an idea of where where you can play, whether you get the high end, the middle end or the low end, not service or anything, just the lower end of what you’re going to build for the services. And typically, like you said before, the lower end you charge, you’re going to have to do more volume. I just did a masterclass and financial unit We’re talking about this yoga program around financials and financial statements and how to look at what’s a profitable model. And I like to use the three times model, meaning whatever you charge, per, whatever you charge, whatever you make per hour, has to be three times of what you’re paying the person to deliver it. So if you’re paying someone $50 an hour, that person has to generate at least $150 an hour. If not, there’s not enough money for profit, and for overhead, and salaries and labor costs and all that. So that three times model was always a good model, you can use that really easily in the cash base model, right? Because typically, in a cash base model, you’re literally just paying because a lot of cash base is an hour. But hey, if you’re paying the person $50 an hour, you can charge less than 150. That makes it really easy to figure out. But I know your model, you’re like, I’m not doing three times my models five times, even better. And as long as people are willing to pay it, and you feel good, and they feel good. This is more of a mind a mindset. What do you value, your own services. And the challenge we all have Karen is, once we learn all this stuff, once we go through all the heartache, once we go through all that stuff, all the money and everything, we typically forget about how much we put into doing this. And we only look forward, we only look at other people that we think are better than us. And they know more, and who am I to charge more, they don’t even charge that much. When we get into that whole world. And that’s tough. We need to to charge appropriately for not what we do, the benefits that we provide. Right? Right. That’s what we’re billing out. We build out outcomes benefits results.

Unknown Speaker 27:02
100%? And how do you? What do you advise people to? Or how do you advise people sorry, to? To express that, to whether that be on their website? Or when they’re talking to a patient on a sales call? How do they express what they do for them? So what those outcomes would be? Because in the end, everyone’s always like, How much is it? Which is normal? Like if people are coming for your services, they should know how much it is right? So how do you so now we’re getting

Unknown Speaker 27:41
into the sales conversation? Well, you know, my favorite topics. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 27:48
It’s up to you how deep of a dive you want to go on this.

Unknown Speaker 27:51
But I love I love the sales conversation because it can be really, really simple. Right? I don’t have a complicated sales process. I had three calls today. They’re the most genuine, authentic just conversation, here’s the thing. Step one, identify where the person is, what trouble what pain, what difficulty, are there have it step one be? What are those? What are the problems that they’re having? How are they affecting their lives? So in our world, in the marketing world, it’s called pain points. What are their pain points. This is not just physical pain points. These are emotional pain points. It could be spiritual pain points, it could be financial pain points, think about financial pain points for a second. So you’re working with someone, and you’re helping them potentially to avoid a $35,000 back surgery. So there’s huge benefits to this, right, you’re also potentially avoiding them because they don’t want to take medication. So they’re now not going to be hooked on oxy. So what’s the benefits of that? What’s the results of that? So you always start with where people are, have the problem that they’re having. So we call them you start in the pain. And then you transition to their desires, their aspirations, their wants, what do they want? And I’ve had people say to me, well, Jamie, of course, they want to be out of pain. I go, No, they want more than that. Getting out of pain is one part of it. But to do what, like I’ve had chronic back pain for 30 years. Now when my back pain flares up. First of all, I’ll write a check. I don’t care how big 100% Right Second of all, what I want is not to get out of pain, necessarily. I want to go back and play basketball. Now of course, it’s a hell of a lot easier to play if I’m not in severe pain. Now the question was, or the question is, so what is it about basketball? Well, it’s social. It’s physical. I stay in shape. I stay connected with my friends. What happens if you can’t play basketball? Well, frankly, I’ll get a little depressed. I’ll just be a slob. I you know, a walk around the neighborhood but that’s I’d like to talk smack with my buddies. So you get people into this emotional place of where you are now. And where they want to be where they want to be. The only thing that you need to provide, besides a sense of trust, which is, what’s the biggest thing you provide, is you’re providing a bridge from what I like to refer to as the House of Pain. Because I like to house the pain. Sure, jump around to play. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 30:30
of course, that was that was House of Pain, right? jump around,

Unknown Speaker 30:33
I know you you got the House of Pain, to Pleasure Island, are going from pain to pleasure. The thing that gets us there, the bridge that gets us from pain to pleasure. That’s what you provide. Now, if they want to know the specifics of what you do, then you can share the specifics you could share Well, step one, we do an intake evaluation, and we go through ABC, step two, we determine what’s going on step three, we turn the player of the plan, step four, we get you better. So 1234, that’s our plan. So because when I trust you caring, if I trust you, I don’t need to know every little thing that you’re going to do. I really don’t care. All I care about is can you help me get what I want? And get me out of this place that I’m at right now. This is the, quote, sales conversation. I have. I mean, I tell people what the sales conversation because people think this is like some bait and switch, some coercive, the best sales conversation in the world are the ones that are most authentic, most genuine, and you actually care and you want to understand where they are. And you want to understand where they want to go. And you have confidence in what you do. If you don’t have confidence. You show up weak weaknesses in something people trust, and you show up. I don’t know if you’re gonna be they really helped me. So if I asked you well, how much do you charge? Well, I don’t I mean, kind of I mean, is 100 too much? I mean, I mean, I’ll see you a couple of visits, like, you start almost apologizing, right? I’ve done it.

Unknown Speaker 32:21
I’ve done it. I’ve done it a million times. 100. Yeah, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 32:26
But I’ve gotten over my emotion towards money, because that was my issues. And now it’s just very clear. Well, here’s what the program is, here’s what we do, here’s how much it costs. Hey, whatever, you know, credit card, check, whatever worried. And, yeah, I mean, this, this is where, you know, when we do an exercise around sales, you come out of this, not thinking twice about it. But we have to appreciate the fact that we went into physical therapy, we do have some money issues, we do have some guilt issues. But we can address those, because those aren’t helping us get create the life that we want. And that’s not going to serve the people we want to serve. And that’s not going to attract the people that want to work for us either. Right? Because your staff, as much as we like to say, well, the generation, whatever generation we’re on Z, Y, whatever, they don’t want to work, they don’t want to do anything they don’t want to nobody wants to work for a boss who’s broke. Because you know, why selfishly speaking? Karen, if you’re broke, that means my job’s unstable. My security is unstable, right? I want you to do well. So it’s not that I don’t want you to do well. But let’s face it, it’s it’s it’s expensive out there. And I want to make sure that I’m secure. So most of the people that bitch and complain about the people out there, they volunteer about his money. Well, the problem is, why can’t you afford to pay them? And it’s because you’re not running an efficient business. Because of some of the things we talked about. Your services aren’t priced correctly, you don’t know actually how to position and sell your services. But those are skills. Those are skills you can learn there’s nothing magic about it.

Unknown Speaker 34:15
Right. And you can practice those skills. Absolutely. You have

Unknown Speaker 34:19
to practice Yeah, well, how many when I worked with my, one of my first coaches in this business and in the coaching and training business on my nine years ago, he had me do this extra because he I had so much damn money stuff in my head. He goes, what what’s the most you’ve ever sold in a program is like $500 Like, okay, so you’re gonna charge $5,000 for your upcoming 90 Day Program. This This was the first thing I sold. I didn’t sell a $97 program or $7 The first thing I was selling despite that I was sweating. And I go what do I say because you say exactly this. You ask them about this, you ask smell that. And then you say, here’s what the price is, and you shut up. And I was scared I was sweating up for people said, Yes, I made more money in that thing. And they ended up being clients for a long time. Right? So what he had me do here was the exercise. He goes, I want you to practice doing the sales on your phone. And then I want you to send it to me. I’ll give you some feedback. You do it again. So I practice 10 times. give me feedback. I practice 10 more, I knew the sales close. Right? Hey, so what are your thing? All right. So this, what do you that? So I kind of practice that, that thing. And by the end, I’m not saying I still didn’t have some issues and butterflies when I said it, but it was a lot less emotional for me. And, of course, the people came on and they they loved it, they did well. So this is what we get to do we get to increase our skill levels and capabilities by practicing for sure.

Unknown Speaker 36:06
Right, right. And and it’s okay to not be perfect right out of the gate.

Unknown Speaker 36:12
You’re not going to be perfect, you’re gonna screw this up, of course, you’re gonna mess it up. And you know what, they’re still going to pay you.

Unknown Speaker 36:20
That’s right. That’s right.

Unknown Speaker 36:22
Another mentor of mine told me always get paid for r&d. And everything’s r&d. In other words, everything we’re doing, we’re just practicing, right, we’re gonna practice this, you might as well practice it on people that can write new checks and come in as, as a patient. So, lean into the fear, lean into the worry, practice the the conversation and all that figure out where your price point is, and be confident people, people will pay for the results. Now, that’s not your population. If your population is $125 a visit, that’s fine, that’s fine. People will pay for the results. That’s right, you get to choose where your thing is, the only advice I would give you is just make sure you’re at that three times multiple, do not charge and we’re not talking about you because nobody pays themselves. We’re talking about if you are someone if you’re just a solopreneur. If you are someone to deliver services, just make sure what you’re charging is three times what you pay them. If not, you’re gonna you’re gonna buck up on some on some issues there.

Unknown Speaker 37:38
Right, right. And I think that’s really good advice, and kind of a one. One have a really good solid takeaway from our conversation. Are there any other takeaways that you want the audience to remember?

Unknown Speaker 37:54
Decide whether you’re the peninsula or the red roof. Look for the people in that level of your market. Look at where they are and what their services are, and charge and price accordingly. Absolutely,

Unknown Speaker 38:11
yeah. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more great advice. Did we miss anything in our conversation? I feel like we hit a lot of really solid points. Was there anything that you were like I really wanted to get this point in? And we didn’t hit it?

Unknown Speaker 38:26
No, I don’t think so. I mean, you know, you and I have lots of conversations around this. wish this was more complicated. It’s not. It’s not complicated. We make

Unknown Speaker 38:38
it complicated.

Unknown Speaker 38:39
I don’t want to make it more complicated. Because I’m really good at doing that. I don’t want to make this complicated. By giving all this other stuff. Here’s the biggest problem we have with this. It’s not that we’re great at delivering what we do. The problem is we have our own internal issues around money around pricing around guilt. That’s the part we have to address. No amount of fancy strategy, this subnet is going to change that. So the thing I gave you with the hotels with the this and that, it gives you an idea where you feel comfortable, make sure it’s three times what you would have to pay someone to do it and try it. See they’ll thank you. They’ll thank you for doing that because your issues your own stuff is all in your head. So the only way you can address it is by addressing it so you don’t need any more fancy stuff. It’s just figure out where you are who you are. Charge it and go get

Unknown Speaker 39:43
it right kiss keep keep it simple, stupid, right?

Unknown Speaker 39:47
Keep it simple.

Unknown Speaker 39:48
Keep it simple. absolute love it now. I know you know this question. So what advice would you give to your younger self? You’ve given plenty of advice here to your younger self, and I feel like it’s a never end Doing well, sources. So give us another one.

Unknown Speaker 40:03
What advice would I give to my younger self? Um, I probably I would have, I would have gotten help from an outside source sooner.

Unknown Speaker 40:19
I love it. I just said that the other day, I think that’s great advice.

Unknown Speaker 40:23
You and I, you and I have a value system very similar when it comes to learning. You and I are lifetime learners. Mm hmm. And I wasn’t always like this, I learned in my profession. But when it came to the business of physical therapy, I did not invest one 100 of what I invest in my, you know, manual skills and stuff, I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t, I would buy a book. And my younger self, I would have invested much more in my business acumen, I would have hired a coach, I would have went through the uncomfortableness of writing a check to my coach, which I eventually did. But then on the other side of that, you know, you get so much back of that, because you have to go through the fire, all of us have to go to the fire, even the overnight successes, which there’s no such thing goes through the fire. So I would have gone through the fire sooner so I could get on the other side instead of through the torment that I did for for pretty much nine years.

Unknown Speaker 41:27
Right? Right. I couldn’t agree more. And now where can people find you? And what is your free gift for the listeners? Because I know there is one here. So they can you can follow me quiz. Ah, your PT practice quiz.

Unknown Speaker 41:46
Yeah, I mean, look, the first thing you want to do is really understand kind of where you are in your business, you might think you understand where you are. But this this, this pte practice quiz and I have asked you questions that you’re not asking yourself. So there’s it only takes about five minutes to do it gives you a score kind of rates you where you are in your business, and then I provide resources to help you overcome those challenges that you’re having. Because business really comes for most of us, you’re really in three different areas of your business, you’re in a Stage One Business stage two, stage three. And really what that means is where your income is your your total revenue, whether it’s zero to 400,000 400,000 to a million or million to 3 million, that’s where 90% of all of us are. So this quiz kind of will ask you some questions and really kind of teach you a lot about your business. So that’s definitely something that I would highly recommend taking you want to reach me you know, best way to do is just follow me on LinkedIn. You know at Jamie Schreier. You can reach out for my you know, shoot me an email if you want to shoot me an email Jamie at practice freedom you. I’m all over the place. I’m like you, Karen. I’m all over social media. I tried to get myself out there and try to deliver good, good resources for people to try to help them.

Unknown Speaker 43:07
Cool and I’ll just remind people of the website it’s practice freedom you the letter

Unknown Speaker 43:14
Yeah, practice And then yeah, there’s there’s a quiz right there or you can leave the link to the quiz.

Unknown Speaker 43:20
Yes, everything will all of Jamie’s information will be at the podcast, website at podcast at healthy wealthy In the show notes under this episode, one click will take you to anywhere you want to go. Jamie Schreier related. So I think that’s pretty good, right. That’s great. Great. So Jamie, thank you so much for coming on. Again, as always a great conversation. I really appreciate you. So thank you so much. Thank you, Karen. And everyone. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.

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©2019 Karen Litzy Physical Therapy PLLC.
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